The Treat Addiction Save Lives Podcast
Join us for timely discussions, interviews, and stories that aim to shift perceptions of addiction from a moral failing and motivate healthcare professionals to play an active role in helping individuals recover. Treatment is available. Recovery is possible. Stay informed—follow and subscribe!
Join us for timely discussions, interviews, and stories that aim to shift perceptions of addiction from a moral failing and motivate healthcare professionals to play an active role in helping individuals recover. Treatment is available. Recovery is possible. Stay informed—follow and subscribe!
Episodes

Feb 19, 2024
Feb 19, 2024
35 min
Dr. Gabrielle Jones is the recipient of the 2024 ASAM Award for the Promotion of Inclusion, Diversity, Equality, and Justice in Addiction Medicine. She joins the Treat Addiction Save Lives Podcast to discuss her experiences working with young people and how those experiences brought her into the field of addiction medicine. Dr. Jones shares her thoughts on the importance of community and connectedness throughout the treatment and recovery process while recognizing each individual’s uniqueness. She talks about the need for cultural responsiveness in addiction treatment, which is the topic of her upcoming book, Culturally Responsive Substance Use Treatment: A Guide for Practitioners, Students, and Organizations. Dr. Jones emphasizes the importance of recognizing each individual’s lived experiences and identities and developing an individualized and comprehensive addiction treatment program based on these factors. Dr. Jones shares what she discovered while working in various communities and how identity played a role in substance use in these areas. She also discusses her involvement with The Miles Hall Foundation, raising awareness, and expanding access to mental health treatment to those who need it. Dr. Jones shares her thoughts and experiences with stigma related to addiction and addiction treatment, including the impact of non-stigmatizing language and some ways in which she has personally experienced stigma while treating addiction, in addition to forms of stigma faced by patients. Finally, Dr. Jones offers advice to those who may be considering or beginning a career in addiction medicine.
In addition to being honored by ASAM, Dr. Jones is also being recognized by Oklahoma State University with the College of Education and Human Sciences Outstanding Alumni Award, which is given to those who demonstrate significant promise toward establishing a distinguished career and making impactful contributions to their profession and beyond. Honorees seek opportunities to grow in their talents and purposefully serve others. Their quest for excellence is shown through their accomplishments, service to the community, and leadership potential.
Gabrielle Jones, Ph.D., is a licensed psychologist and the CEO and founder of Steady Clinical Consultation, Training, and Development Services. She founded Steady to improve substance use treatment for historically marginalized populations at the system level and to provide consultation and coaching to leadership and executives who are committed to championing Belonging, Justice, Equity, Diversity, & Inclusion (BJED&I) in their workplace and for their workforce. Her expertise is in substance use treatment for youth and adults, and BJED&I initiatives at the system level. She has over a decade of experience working with marginalized communities, specifically, adolescents labeled \"at-risk,\" people involved in the juvenile justice system and their families, and people who have substance use concerns or have been diagnosed with a substance use disorder. Dr. Jones has worked in direct care hospital settings, community mental health settings, primary school settings, and university settings as a faculty member. She provides trainings to non-profit organizations related to substance use and cultural responsiveness in the context of mental health treatment, and consultation to individuals working with populations listed above. In addition to Dr. Jones’s consultations and trainings, she is active in non-profit board leadership, serving as vice chair for The Miles Hall Foundation, an organization committed to creating an alternative to calling the police during a mental health crisis, and previously serving as the Membership Board chair for the American Psychological Association. Dr. Jones received her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology at California State University, Long Beach. She completed her Master’s and Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology at Oklahoma State University. Her upcoming book, \"Culturally Responsive Substance Use Treatment: A Guide for Practitioners, Students, and Organizations\" introduces her CRST Framework and is intended to transform the current substance use treatment landscape and promote a standard of care that is truly culturally responsive.
Links:
ASAM’s Inclusion, Diversity, Equality, and Justice in Addiction Medicine Award
Culturally Responsive Substance Use Treatment: A Guide for Practitioners, Students, and Organization
The Miles Hall Foundation
Steady Clinical Consultation, Training and Development Services
Oklahoma State University College of Education and Human Sciences
American Psychological Association
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, you are not alone. Treatment is available and recovery is possible. Visit ASAM’s Patient Resources page for more information.

Feb 9, 2024
Feb 9, 2024
30 min
Dr. Michael Fingerhood is a professor of medicine and public health at Johns Hopkins University and chief of the Division of Addiction Medicine at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center. In this episode, he shares his early experiences in medical school in the Bronx and how stigma within the medical community influenced his decision to pursue a career in addiction medicine. Dr. Fingerhood continues to combat stigma related to addiction, including through the Words Matter Pledge initiative. Dr. Fingerhood discusses the importance of raising awareness about stigma related to addiction, including through the practice of integrated care rather than siloing care.
Dr. Fingerhood also talks about patients’ self-assigned stigma, undoing shame and blame, and the importance of coping skills and strategies. He shares that, for him, helping patients in this way within the primary care setting is powerful. Dr. Fingerhood discusses the importance of teaching and training others – including students, residents, and fellows – to treat addiction and how the net of impact is widened through this process.
Dr. Fingerhood is very active in his community, treating addiction and addressing associated stigma in various ways, and he shares how and why these activities are so important to him. He recalls the first patient for whom he prescribed buprenorphine – she is still his patient decades later! – and he offers advice for others interested in or joining the field of addiction medicine.
Dr. Fingerhood grew up in Brooklyn, NY, and his Brooklyn accent still comes out at times. He earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from The Johns Hopkins University and his Medical Degree from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, NY. His experiences in the Bronx helped shape his interest in addiction medicine. He completed internal medicine training and a chief resident year at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.
The mission of Dr. Fingerhood’s career has been to promote and improve the provision of medical care to patients with substance use disorder, including the treatment of HIV and hepatitis C, with the development, maintenance, and evaluation of innovative programs related to the care of these individuals. Dr. Fingerhood created the Comprehensive Care Practice in 1994, a Ryan White-funded primary care practice largely devoted to providing care to individuals with substance use disorder. The practice has been innovative in integrating buprenorphine treatment into the primary care setting for over 700 individuals.
He has also co-created novel buprenorphine treatment programs at a community center, at a church, and in a mobile van outside the Baltimore detention center. He has received the Health Equity Leadership Award from the Baltimore City Health Department.
Dr. Fingerhood is co-author of the ASAM Handbook of Addiction Medicine and currently chairs the ASAM State of the Art Course in Addiction Medicine Program Planning Committee and the ASAM Medical Education Council. He was the chair of the ASAM Annual Conference Program Planning Committee for 6 years.
Dr. Fingerhood has co-authored over 70 research papers and has received NIH research funding continuously over the past 30 years.
Despite leaving New York, he remains an avid Yankees, Knicks, and Rangers fan, and he enjoys seeing three or four Broadway plays each year.
Links:
Division of Addiction Medicine at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center
Words Matter Pledge
ASAM Handbook of Addiction Medicine
ASAM State of the Art Course
ASAM Annual Conference
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, you are not alone. Treatment is available and recovery is possible. Visit ASAM’s Patient Resources page for more information.

Jan 26, 2024
Jan 26, 2024
39 min
In this episode, Dr. Paul Earley describes how his own experience with addiction and recovery led him to a career in addiction medicine. He shares how addiction affected him and his work, along with the personal consequences of his illness. He also touches on misconceptions about addiction and those with addiction and emphasizes that addiction is a complex and complicated illness. Dr. Earley shares that there are “many roads to peace,” and he believes it is especially helpful to be around others who are also in recovery. He goes on to discuss the importance of developing gratitude and being helpful to others and the transformation in recovery from being self-centered to becoming other-centered. Dr. Earley talks about the need to combat the stigma related to addiction, including the significance of using person-first language, and the efforts ASAM has undertaken toward this end. He emphasizes that addiction is a chronic illness, like diabetes or hypertension, and should be treated as such, and the role genetics plays in one’s risk of addiction. By using the metaphor of wood kindling catching fire, Dr. Earley describes the way addiction works and how science shows the complexities of addiction and its effects on the brain. He discusses medications that are available to treat addiction and shares a meaningful story that demonstrates why he treats addiction. Lastly, Dr. Earley offers advice and insights to the next generation of addiction medicine professionals.
Dr. Earley has been an addiction medicine physician for over 35 years. He treats all types of addictive disorders and specializes in the assessment and treatment of health care professionals. Dr. Earley speaks and trains on topics of addiction, its treatment, and addiction among health care professionals. In addition, he trains therapists on the neurobiological basis of addiction and psychotherapy. In his travels, he has provided training in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Italy, and Switzerland. Dr. Earley is the author of three books and numerous articles on addiction and its treatment and has contributed to the ASAM textbook Principles of Addiction Medicine, as the author of the chapter Physician Health Programs and Addiction among Physicians. He is one of the contributing authors of The ASAM Criteria®. Dr. Earley’s work was featured in the documentary series on addiction entitled Close to Home by Bill Moyers. Dr. Earley is a past president of ASAM and received ASAM’s Annual Award in 2015.
Links:
Textbooks (asam.org)
ASAM Criteria 4th Edition
Annual Award (asam.org)
Changing Lives | BillMoyers.com
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, you are not alone. Treatment is available and recovery is possible. Visit ASAM’s Patient Resources page for more information.

Jan 10, 2024
Jan 10, 2024
26 min
In this latest episode of the Treat Addiction Save Lives Podcast, Dr. Kristin Martin shares her journey into the field of addiction medicine. She discusses how her experience as an ER physician and medical director influenced that journey and her quest for better options for and consistency in care for her patients. Dr. Martin talks about how learning from her patients about their recovery journeys broadened her understanding of addiction, and she shares how the COVID crisis affected how she cared for patients with addiction and approached addiction treatment. She explains her view that addiction affects the whole person and so should be treated holistically via integrated care – addressing primary care, mental health, and addiction needs all together in a safe and nonjudgmental environment. Dr. Martin shares her own experience with stigma as an addiction medicine provider, how that experience has changed over time, and the ways we can transform stigmatizing attitudes toward both providers and patients. Dr. Martin shares a patient’s story from several years ago that continues to inspire her today and offers some thoughts for the next generation of addiction medicine providers.
Dr. Kristin Martin is an accomplished osteopathic physician with extensive experience in emergency medicine, family medicine, and addiction medicine. She graduated from Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences and completed her family medicine residency through the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences at Jefferson Regional Medical Center in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. She founded River Valley Medical Wellness and serves as a board member for the AFMC (Arkansas Foundation for Medical Care) and the Arkansas Osteopathic Medical Association. Additionally, Dr. Martin has adjunct faculty appointments at the Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine and the DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine at Lincoln Memorial University. Noted for her dedication to medical education and patient care, Dr. Martin was presented the George Bean, D.O. Memorial Outstanding Physician Award by the Arkansas Osteopathic Medical Association in August of 2022.
Links:
River Valley Medical Wellness
Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences | Oklahoma State University (okstate.edu)
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
AFMC (Arkansas Foundation for Medical Care)
Arkansas Osteopathic Medical Association (arosteopathic.org)
Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine (achehealth.edu)
DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine (lmunet.edu)
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, you are not alone. Treatment is available and recovery is possible. Visit ASAM’s Patient Resources page for more information.

Dec 27, 2023
Dec 27, 2023
34 min
In this episode of the Treat Addiction Save Lives Podcast, Louis Baxter, Sr., MD, DFASAM, discusses what inspired him to pursue a career in addiction medicine and how he came to practice in the field. He also shares some stories of his experiences treating professional athletes and how he came to possess several championship and Super Bowl rings.
Dr. Baxter talks about the evolution of his own substance use, how addiction can progress from a \"kindling\" to a \"fire,\" and his journey to recovery.
Stressing the importance of education, Dr. Baxter discusses efforts to increase addiction education in medical school, allied health training programs, and the community. He also talks about his involvement in and the process of starting the addiction medicine fellowship program at Howard University. He believes increased education will help combat the stigma surrounding addiction and address the fear of treating addiction experienced by some health care professionals. Dr. Baxter also feels that sharing about one’s own addiction and recovery can serve as an inspiration and example for others who are suffering with addiction.
In his new book, I Didn’t Know, Dr. Baxter discusses his life, including childhood trauma, addiction, and road to recovery. He hopes his story will serve to help others and reduce stigma associated with addiction.
Finally, Dr. Baxter shares his thoughts for the next generation of addiction medicine professionals.
Dr. Louis Baxter, Sr., is the founder and director of the Howard University Addiction Medicine Fellowship, the first such program at an Historically Black College and University (HBCU). He holds assistant professor appointments at Rutgers University, Temple University, and Thomas Jefferson University. Dr Baxter is a member of the American College of Sports Medicine and a consultant to the National Football League (NFL), the National Basketball Association (NBA), and the US Olympic Anti-Doping Committee. He contributes time and talent to numerous national public agencies, such as the US Food & Drug Administration (FDA) National Advisory Council; the National Institutes of Health (NIH) National Institute of Alcohol Abuse & Alcoholism (NIAAA); the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP); and the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA). He has been recognized by The HistoryMakers (2022); The White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (2019); and ASAM, with the 2017 Annual Award and the 2022 Training Director Award. In May 2023, Dr. Baxter accepted an appointment to the Police Assisted Addiction and Recovery Initiative (PAARI), which aims to create non-arrest pathways to recovery and treatment for those with mental health and substance use disorders. Dr. Baxter earned his MD from Temple University Lewis Katz School of Medicine. He completed his internship and residency in internal medicine at the Cooper Hospital University Medical Center at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey and a fellowship in addiction medicine at Portsmouth Psychiatric Hospital in Portsmouth, VA. He holds a bachelor’s degree from the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Baxter is a former president of ASAM.

Dec 15, 2023
Dec 15, 2023
1hr 5 min
Seasons greetings from us here at ASAM! In this episode we've got over an hour of great holiday music plus messages of gratitude and warmth from our ASAM community members who called into our holiday phone line this year. Sit back and enjoy!

Nov 29, 2023
Nov 29, 2023
24 min
In this episode of the Treat Addiction Save Lives Podcast, Midwestern University medical students Mike Krupp & Matt Moon discuss what led them to study addiction medicine and how they became involved with the organization, Care for Friends, which is based in Chicago and provides support and services to the unhoused population there. Together, Mike & Matt started an addiction medicine club at Midwestern which, with support from the school, provides students with the opportunity to volunteer their services with Care for Friends. They are currently participating by screening patients for substance use disorders and referring to treatment; along with conducting a clothing drive and harm reduction clinics.
Mike & Matt share their experience at ASAM’s Annual Conference 2023, where they were excited to meet with others interested in the field of addiction medicine and learn about the latest research and best practices in the field. They also share how their experiences working with CFF has influenced their perspectives on addiction and individuals who are dealing with addiction. Matt & Mike stress the importance of establishing relationships with patients and fighting stigma associated with addiction by practicing compassionate care in a judgement-free environment. They also discuss the need for more education and training about addiction, stigma related to certain types of addiction but not others, and separating addiction from the individual.
Michael Krupp is a 4th year medical student at Midwestern University currently pursuing a degree in Osteopathic Medicine. Originally from Madison, Wisconsin, Michael attended Clemson University for undergraduate studies and to play rugby. While there, he received a degree in biology before returning back to the Midwest to complete medical school. While Michael has always been involved in a variety of volunteering activities, his work with Care For Friends has really helped him to gain exposure and experience to a population base that he plans on working closely with during his career in Addiction Psychiatry. He loves working with people and is always doing his best to improve upon pre-existing programs as well as to help found new programs to address issues faced by the undomiciled population of Chicago. Outside of work and volunteering, Michael loves to hang out with his family and friends, travel, go to concerts, and do movie marathons with his girlfriend Katrina. He is excited for this opportunity to give back to the community and is looking forward to what the future holds.
Matthew Moon grew up in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota and is currently a fourth-year medical student at Midwestern University, Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. He is currently pursuing a residency in Psychiatry and has several interests within Psychiatry which includes treating substance use disorders. Along with his colleague, he started a new Addiction Medicine club at Midwestern University and hopes that this will serve as a way for other medical students to learn more about the field of Addiction Medicine/Psychiatry.
Links:
Care for Friends
Midwestern University
Midwestern University Addiction Medicine Club
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, you are not alone. Treatment is available and recovery is possible. Visit ASAM’s Patient Resources page for more information.

Oct 13, 2023
Oct 13, 2023
35 min
In our final podcast during National Addiction Treatment Week 2023, Dr. Christina Delos Reyes shares how she came to be an addiction medicine specialist, starting as a peer support for other students in medical school. She has now come full circle, as she currently serves as a coach helping healers heal themselves. Dr. Delos Reyes talks about the importance of storytelling and what inspired her to start Club Hope, a compassionate community for anyone and everyone affected by addiction. She discusses the importance of bringing the disease of addiction out into the light, to eradicate the stigma, shame, and secrecy of addiction, so it becomes a “casserole illness.” She also touches on the process by which stigma and discrimination perpetuate one another. Dr. Delos Reyes shares about her transition from clinician to coach, the complexities of her work, and the need for medical students to be exposed to individuals in long-term recovery in order to change the story from hopeless to hopeful. Dr. Delos Reyes’ message to others is to focus on relationships and shared humanity, and she discusses the role of spirituality in addiction treatment and recovery.
Dr. Christina Delos Reyes is an addiction psychiatrist with over 25 years of experience. She shifted from clinical practice in 2022 and spends her time teaching, consulting, and coaching. She will be joining the Ohio Professionals Health Program as associate medical director later this year. She currently splits her time between her hometown of Cleveland and her new town of Las Vegas.
Thank you for listening. In honor of National Addiction Treatment Week, ASAM is providing the choice of two engaging on-demand 2023 ASAM Annual Conference sessions for free until Dec. 31, 2023. Use code NATW2023 at checkout when you register for either Stimulant Treatment for ADHD: Not Exactly Opioids 2.0, But Close? or Delta What? An Update on Novel Cannabinoids including Delta-8 and 10 THC
For more podcast episodes and resources, follow #TreatmentWeek and visit www.treataddictionsavelives.org.
Subscribe to The ASAM Weekly, a source of timely, useful news briefings of top stories and current research in the field of addiction medicine. Delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.
Links:
Club Hope: www.clubhopeunlimited.com

Oct 13, 2023
Oct 13, 2023
34 min
Even as a child, Dr. Nicole Labor knew she wanted to be a doctor. During this Treat Addiction Save Lives podcast, Dr. Labor talks about her path to becoming an addiction medicine physician, including her own experience with substance use as a medical student. She shares about working at the birthplace of AA and how she was influenced by that history. Dr. Labor discusses what inspired her to write the book, The Addictoholic Deconstructed: An irreverently quick and dirty education by a doctor who says f*ck a lot, and how she feels addiction requires individualized care and should be treated as any other chronic medical disease. Dr. Labor encourages other medical providers and professionals to become educated about the addiction disease process, to build relationships with addiction medicine specialists, and to recognize that patients with substance use disorder (SUD) deserve the high expectations we hold for all other patients. Dr. Labor also shares how she knows her work is impactful.
Dr. Nicole Labor graduated from Penn State University with a bachelor's in biobehavioral health and attended the Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine where she earned her DO. Residency in family medicine took place in Buffalo, NY (SUNY), followed by a fellowship in addiction medicine at Marworth, through Geisinger.
Dr. Labor started her addiction career by working with Summa in Akron, OH, at the Ignatia Hall detox unit, essentially following in the footsteps of Dr. Bob Smith, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. While in Akron, the birthplace of AA, Dr. Labor cultivated relationships with community treatment centers all over northeast Ohio. Dr. Labor is known for her work within the community to reduce the stigma of addiction and provide evidence-based care to patients with SUD. She also serves on the ASAM Board of Directors as a Director-at-Large.
Dr. Labor is married and lives with her husband and daughter on a small hobby farm in Seville, OH. She works as medical director of several SUD/behavioral health facilities and has written a best-selling book about addiction as well as co-written a companion workbook. She is in abstinence-based recovery since 2005.
Thank you for listening. In honor of National Addiction Treatment Week, ASAM is providing the choice of two engaging on-demand 2023 ASAM Annual Conference sessions for free until Dec. 31, 2023. Use code NATW2023 at checkout when you register for either Stimulant Treatment for ADHD: Not Exactly Opioids 2.0, But Close? or Delta What? An Update on Novel Cannabinoids including Delta-8 and 10 THC
For more podcast episodes and resources, follow #TreatmentWeek and visit www.treataddictionsavelives.org.
Subscribe to The ASAM Weekly, a source of timely, useful news briefings of top stories and current research in the field of addiction medicine. Delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.
Links:
The Addictoholic Deconstructed: An irreverently quick and dirty education by a doctor who says f*ck a lot: Labor, Dr. Nicole T, Kolankowski, Kevin, Jarvis MD, Margaret: 9780578580524: Amazon.com: Books

Oct 13, 2023
Oct 13, 2023
44 min
In episode 3 of the Treat Addiction Save Lives podcast, Dr. Patrick C. Beeman shares about his journey to practicing addiction medicine as an OB/GYN physician and the challenges and uniqueness of treating addiction in the field of women’s health. Dr. Beeman discusses the importance of education, communication, and networking as he challenges the stigma associated with addiction and believes that each individual can make a difference in the fight against addiction. Dr. Beeman shares why he started the Ars Longa Media company, which includes the Inside the Boards podcast, and the importance of the media in influencing culture and conversation. His latest initiative is the Addiction Recovery project; a new podcast will feature musicians sharing their own recovery and treatment journeys, along with an album of cover songs related to addiction and recovery. Dr. Beeman also talks about creativity and addiction; the importance of treating patients with dignity and respect; and how seemingly little, day-to-day efforts can add up to measurable improvements.
Dr. Beeman is a Catholic, husband, father, physician, proud Ohioan, quondam philosopher, and media producer. Board certified in Ob/Gyn and addiction medicine, he is the medical director of the innovative natural women’s health practice Veranova Health, as well as Medmark Treatment Centers–Amherst, an opioid treatment program. He’s the founder of the USMLE prep platform, InsideTheBoards, and the health media and creativity company, Ars Longa Media. If you’re interested in working together on creative health media and medical education projects, check out ALM’s “Addiction // Recovery” page. And you can find links to Dr. Beeman’s various activities, including a guide to preparing for the addiction medicine board exam, on his Linktree page. He resides in and serves his hometown community of Lorain, Ohio, just outside of Cleveland.
Thank you for listening. In honor of National Addiction Treatment Week, ASAM is providing the choice of two engaging on-demand 2023 ASAM Annual Conference sessions for free until Dec. 31, 2023. Use code NATW2023 at checkout when you register for either Stimulant Treatment for ADHD: Not Exactly Opioids 2.0, But Close? or Delta What? An Update on Novel Cannabinoids including Delta-8 and 10 THC
For more podcast episodes and resources, follow #TreatmentWeek and visit www.treataddictionsavelives.org.
Subscribe to The ASAM Weekly, a source of timely, useful news briefings of top stories and current research in the field of addiction medicine. Delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.
Links:
Ars Longa Media - Home
InsideTheBoards - Home
Ars Longa Media - Addiction//Recovery
Veranova Health | Family Medicine ObGyn Middleburg Heights, OH
Opioid Treatment in Amherst, Ohio | MedMark
@DrBeeman(drbeeman) - Latest Music, Videos, Twitter Links (linktr.ee)
Home | MI CARES (micaresed.org)
Online Guide to Certification (asam.org)


Follow, Subscribe & Share!
Addiction is a disease, not a moral failing. Treatment is available. Recovery is possible.
Disclaimer:
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered health advice.
• We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast.
• This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.
• The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.






